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Cloak Discussion

Heager

04.06.2016 00:18:54Link to post

Well,

I was thinking, this cloak used in the game is not really a cloak. You can't hide very well
using this function. What I mean is; this cloak makes sound! Also it generates some kind of
blue waves that can be seen. Plus, it doesn't hide your shadows from the world. I have no idea
why Crytek bothered putting this in the game if it doesn't work as a proper cloak. Besides it
doesn't put you out of the radar (in scan or when firing); so it's completely useless!

Also I thought that, this could be changed in a patch or update, for <difficulty> issues.

And Offtopic. Sound effects and localization play different (in multiplayer) on first person
and third person (character settings are screwed, by default).
You can always hear the same <Pain and death> sounds. (Actually, death sounds do not play in multiplayer).
You know what I mean: "player" and "nk_soldier_01". Is there any way to fix this? For realism.

Greets.

:) :) ;)


Freebo

04.06.2016 01:27:20Link to post

Well my humble opinion :)

I know you were SP player for long time and MP is still new thing for you so you have SP player habits and you can't adjust to few things so easily (I played SP only for few hours so it's hard for me to imagine your situation)

So - about CLOAK in MP.



It's cloak NOT MAGICAL invisibility :) It's just like in "Predator" movie function of the suit. Has to be visible a bit. So this is why you can't hide very well.

Blue waves ? - Since it was based on "Predator" movie this is why you get blue waves to make it visible a bit quite smart idea of Crytek. I think it's quite fair.

Shadows ? - Why would be shadows disabled for cloak. It's only layer on soldier's suit. Still casting shadows like in real life. Army is already working on suit like that - or they probably even have it working already for a while. But it will not disable shadows because for that it would have to make soldier transparent for sun light which is different problem not so easy to solve.

Cloak sound? - Of course it's a bit strange (wouldn't make sense for rel soldier) - but sound makes it more fair for those who never use cloak (like me or hundreds of other fair play MP players). Thanks to sound nobody can stab you in a back. Yeah it's quite unreal but remember it's about balance in game so sound of cloak is fine to make it fair.

Just imagine 20 players playing with cloak at the same time. If you can't hear or see any blue waves, or see shadows - How would you be able to find anyone. Nobody would see or hear you. You wouldn't be able to see or hear others. What is the point of game in this case :) ? Crytek had to make decisions about that and it's ballanced pretty well. But really in IA we never use cloak, ever. BTW cloak should be used just for few seconds, maybe for snipers in PS or to hide after running when you've got no ammo. It's still a lot of help for beginners. I was using cloak only for my first 4 weeks in MP. Really :)

I know you were playing SP for years - I think this is the problem why you see cloak in MP not so comfortable as it is in SP. But it's different kind of gameplay here. Cloak is still good feature in some PS situations. Making it 100% invisible like for NK soldiers in SP wouldn't make sense here though.


Changed in patch ?
As far as I know cloak is more transparent, less visible in Crysis Wars as next MP patch. Which makes it less fair.

BTW you want to play with unlimited cloak and no shadow or sound of cloak - so almost the way you like it. Please try it on "<FP> CLOAK / INVISIBLE MODE" server. Try to play with other 1- 2 players and you will find out it's not very easy and really not fun when you can't see the guy and he can't see you :) I think classic cloak mode is quite nice ballanced. Try it out.



Sounds of pain and death ?
Well of course it can be changed but that requires changes on client side. You're right death sound doesn't work in MP. I think it's good idea. Even sound of pain should be removed in my opinion it's a bit annoying. I made changes one time while making mods and I removed pain sounds in first and third perspective. It was much better.

Besides - you can put any sounds you want for pain - even your own voice if you like to :). You can also remove them if you wish but changing it for whole game for everybody would require everybody to install mod. We don't want to moddify players game (unless you were talking about individual changes for those who want that). We just add network mod.
But you can make your own tests on that. Sounds of death and pain are very random. There are at least 5 different sounds for death and for pain played randomly even in MP.

I wouldn't call "realism" if I could hear every pain and death sound of 20 players on IA server (your SP habits) :) But removing them all yes it really makes gameplay more comfortable for me. Especially when I was training jumping and flying every pain sound was really annoying :)

Thanks for the post man :) Maybe others gonna have different answer.


FAZOR

18.06.2016 02:54:40Link to post

In my humble opinion cloak mode in Crysis Wars was more playable than this one from first Crysis.
In the first hours of playing Crysis, it's hard to see it, but then you get used to it.
Cloak in Crysis 3 is very effective but it's still perceptible. But this one from original Crysis is just useless.
However, we used to 'deal with it', but at least cloak should protect from radar scan as in Crysis Wars.


Freebo

18.06.2016 15:03:12Link to post

Yes FAZOR you're right about those things.
The thing is cloak in Crysis unlike in Crysis Wars and Crysis 2 or Crysis 3 is just an extra feature that helps sometimes. It's usable only in extreme situations and shouldn't be treated like a part of MP game all the time. In Crysis cloak is good only for SP. Where fair play doesn't matter because you play against AI :)

Cloak in Crysis 3 and Crysis 2 was different thing, it was part of the game and I remember playing with 15 player on Skyline for hours. Everybody in cloak all the time. Just switching to armor while shooting and back to cloak again :) Tactical suit usage - was really fun (I remember it was hard to adjust to that after playing Crysis 1 - no cloak). But C2/C3 were different and much slower and heavier games where hiding was more important. That game was only about tactic and aiming. Crysis 1 is more about fast movements, jumping and aiming.

In Crysis 1 MP cloak is STILL VERY useful for campers, snipers, parachuters or even for AFK moments. The thing that we can see them on radar, see their shadows or hear the sound makes it fair for those who never use cloak prefering faster gameplay. I think it's ballanced pretty well. Like 2 games in one.

Even though I think radar itself is not something I'd like to see in PS. Makes it less fun in my opinion. No surprises, less unexpected situations. But this is the way people were playing Crysis for years so it has to stay this way. Even for cloakers. Unless I'm gonna get some requests about radar. Can be tested without it. Otherwise new players should be educated about radar usage, cloak usage, aiming, scope usage, wall jumping and about using less gauss and freezing :) This is all we can do to help it - but still - what people will choose and use it's all up to them. They will decide and it shouldn't be blocked or changed on server side.

Yes I agree CW is much easy for random players. But it's the only advantage of that next "patch" of Crysis 1 MP called Crysis Wars :) made to be easier and less sport-like game. No sense to bring Crysis Wars to Crysis since people can still play CW if it's better for them. Differences between two games maybe are really small but for many players it means a lot. Even many Crysis glitches make it better game as long as they are presented to every new player as a part of the game :) This makes the game unique and fun like no other MP game.


Heager

19.06.2016 02:11:32Link to post

Yes.

I am a "Single Player". I never played Crysis Wars, C2 or C3. But if you say it's better for tactics and aiming, then I should switch to it. Because I love realism, tactics and aiming. That's why I get my ass kicked lots of times, (and it's harshly annoying I confess). :'(

Because I'm not used to fast fighting, moving and jumping. But if you say yourselves, you're not (single players) then AI would kick your asses. xD xD. AI is extremely fast and accurate (they see and kill you inmediately). Mercy time is mostly reduced. This only happens when you play on hardest difficulty, (because I always play on hardest); not only this game. All games.

And sometimes it's "Cheatful". They can hit you, even if you move fast or using speed mode. So mainly, the only way that works in single player is: Cloak, armor, fire and hide again. Also there is more weapon control in SP than MP (a lot).

Basically AI has limited resistance (health) but it's fearless, effective, they have unlimited ammo and they can enlarge their mags! I have seen it! Oh! But they can't see you if you hide with that shitty cloak. :D

Again; mainly, the Cloak only works in single player! LOL!

It's still a good game, a good engine. MAN! Those graphics and those physics! But game mechanics, a little hard to understand for me. Actually, now I'm working in my biggest and most ambicious project. I'm designing a whole city by myself in Sandbox2. It's gonna take some time, and I'm making progress! Yay! Lately I will try to pay for licensing the Sandbox3; the latest version. So I can achieve better results with better tools and publish my work.


Freebo

19.06.2016 23:35:24Link to post

Good luck with your Sandbox2 City project though. I hope you're gonna achieve desired effect. I'm done with big City maps becasue after long months in Parkour City I've learned that Sandbox2 is not good enough for huge detailed areas. There is the limit as I was saying before that forces you to make decisions "Stop right now, or make more buildings but remove all details and vegetation". It's really stupid and depressing for creators. You see that your City is not perfect and lot of things are missing - but you can't finish it because it's gonna be unplayable not only for weak PCs but for any PC. So you always need to check FPS while working on the big city. If you have on your mind only buildings, streets without detailed textures and other little objects all around - sure that can be playable.
The problem with me is that I always needed the city that looks good from the sky while flying above it - and when you land at any building - you can see all realistic details. This is what Parkour City was meant to be about. But it wasn't possible to add much more things than I've got there now. Even Sandbox was crashing whole PC many many times. I bet Crytek was never even testing Sandbox2 for very big maps with details. So this is very sad that CryEngine2 is very good for huge, undetailed maps or for medium/small detailed ones :) Never for big with details at the same time. But if you are going to try some 100% custom optimized buildings created in third part software (I've got some plans for post-apo maps to try in 2017-2018) - it can be good idea for optimization.
Good luck with your City man.


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